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cpm s45vn vs s30v

Therefore, having only vanadium carbides means a better wear resistance-toughness balance. I feel the best way is to compare it to CPM M4 which is a steel we are all familiar with and gets compared often to Hap40/Rex 45 First testing is sharpening to a high sharpeness freehand on benchstones and comparing small differences in the edge quality and other characteristics. CPM SPY27 is a steel produced by Crucible exclusively for Spyderco. The chromium also forms some softer chromium carbides but they are dissolved at typical heat treating temperatures. However, in testing of that steel Chris Reeve Knives wanted more wear resistance to better differentiate from BG42, leading to an increase in vanadium up to the final 4%. Vanadium carbides also tend to be smaller (read this article) so having less chromium carbide means better toughness as well. As described in the S45VN article, nitrogen also decreases the chromium carbide content while increasing the vanadium carbide content, though I’m not sure that was recognized at the time that S30V was designed. It also has increased Carbon and a some Nitrogen added to allow for higher hardness than CPM S35VN. You can read more about what nitrogen additions do in this article on nitrogen additions as well as this article on S45VN. I think this is due to the supporting material behind the edge. [5] Pinnow, Kenneth, William Stasko, and John Hauser. Knifemaker Jeff Freeman of Freeman Outdoor Gear remarked, “Edge retention appears to be very similar or maybe just slightly better than S30V and S35VN. [2] Haswell, Walter T., and August Kasak. S30V quickly became a favorite for knife manufacturers in the 2000s. According to the specs, toughness is slightly decreased, CPM S45VN has 11lbs on C notch, vs. 12lbs on S35vn steel, but better than 10lbs on earlier S30v steel. S30V – 2000°F. [3] “Powder metallurgy tool steel article.” British patent 1443900, issued July 28, 1976. ?? Other possible uses include the manufacture of industrial machinery include: pelletizing equipment, extrusion feed screws, non-return valve components, components for food and chemical processing.Download the Crudible CPM S45VN Steel Datasheet, CPM vs Conventionally Produced Steel (Source Crucible Industries Datasheet), CPM S45VN Alloy Composition (Source Crucible Industries Datasheet), Functional Comparison of S45VN vs other Knife Steels (Source Crucible Industries Datasheet). S60V was the first CPM steel produced by the company through the modification of common stainless grade 440C steel by increasing the composition of vanadium with a corresponding increase of carbon elements.CPM technology was used in the manufacture of homogeneous steel through the even distribution of carbides in the blade. S30V and S35VN are very similar for corrosion resistance. We will be looking into that more in the future. vivi Member … Another change to S30V is that an intentional nitrogen addition was made of about 0.2%, which was made to improve corrosion resistance but also means improved hardening when heat treating. The toughness of S30V is similar to other stainless steels in its class according to my own toughness experiments, though not record-setting, as seen in our standard toughness test utilizing unnotched 1/4 size charpy specimens: However, I think the toughness of S30V could be further improved with better heat treating, if we use what we learned with heat treating S35VN, S45VN, and SPY27. For the maker, it appears to result in longer tool life and possibly increased speeds and feeds with the accompanying decrease in cycle time and machine time. Seems to be slightly worse at everything, from toughness, wear resistance, to edge retention and corrosion resistance. However, its corrosion resistance was not the very best hence the advancement to S35VN. The company has been producing steel with high wear resistance, corrosion resistance, and toughness by adding vanadium and niobium when creating new products. It is a step forward from S35VN but its improvements are incremental better not orders of magnitude better. 21 (1983): 53. 2% Total votes: 131 View results. However, the Mo was not increased to compensate. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! But it does appear that I'm getting a little bit better life out of my cutting tools. [6] https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-true-history-of-s30v-development.1015831/, [7] https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/chris-reeve-green-beret.384825/page-5#post-3538203. It's about the same edge retention as S30V but with better toughness and corrosion resistance. It is also easier to machine and polish than CPM S30V. Crucible developed several powder metallurgy steels including 10V, S60V (formerly 440V) and S90V (formerly 420V), but none of them really gained wide use in knives. Carbides refer to the hard particles present in steel that enhance the blade to retain its edge. Crucible also famously developed powder metallurgy steels which started commercial-scale production in 1970. And less chromium carbide means that even though S90V has less chromium, less is tied up in carbides so that the chromium is free in the steel to improve corrosion resistance. This resulted in a similar amount of carbide, but much more of it is vanadium carbide, which results in higher wear resistance. Along the same lines, CPM S45VN has slightly better edge retention in CATRA test results(all % numbers relative to AISI 440C steel) when compared to CPM S35VN steel, 143% vs… Re: S35VN vs. S30V Post by glbpro » Sat May 23, 2015 1:17 pm I recently purchased a native 5 lightweight to try out both the native as well as the CPM S35VN, a steel which I had no previous experience with. $237.95. The CPM process used enhances the production standardized, high-quality steel with superior dimensional solidity, toughness, and machinability.Comparison Between S45VN and S35VN, Composition I am liking S30V more that 154CM, VG-10, and D2 because when I go to lower angles when sharpening I don’t get the micro-chipping with S30V. 5. This also means that there will be longer periods between sharpening time. With poor grindability and little stain resistance it has never been used much outside of individual custom knives. a mix) of carbon and iron that is often enriched with other elements to … In the development of S90V, the Cr was reduced relative to S60V, dropping from 17% to 14% similar to the modification of 440C to make 154CM. ATS34 might need to be touched up a bit more often, but S30V will be a little harder to sharpen. Good heat treating response was achieved allowing heat treatment to be performed in a range of different furnaces. Crucible Industries has been producing steel with high wear resistance, corrosion resistance, and toughness by adding vanadium and niobium when creating new products. Although S35V seems to be better on toughness, this toughness can be incorporated in S45VN through heat treatment at 2000 °F. The replacement of vanadium and carbon with niobium and nitrogen produces an excellent combination of wear and corrosion resistance, edge retention, and toughness making this the ideal choice in the manufacture of knives. Niobium carbides are also hard hence used in place of vanadium to form higher wear resistance. "CPM S35VN is a martensitic stainless steel designed to offer improved toughness over CPM S30V. 4% S45VN. We now have initial edge retention results from 32 steels on Patreon, so if you want an early look at that come join us on Patreon. Both S30V and S35VN steel are made with the same carbon and chrome content, and from various tests, both steels provide the same edge retention and corrosion … It sharpens easier and is cheaper while still having a pretty great edge retention. Yojimbo™ 2 G-10 Brown Black Blade CPM S90V Exclusive. Steel is essentially an alloy (i.e. In 1970, Crucible Industries pioneered in the production of powder metallurgy tool steels. in these two. S90V, patent filed in 1995 [5], managed to improve on wear resistance, toughness, and corrosion resistance of S60V but its high wear resistance, and therefore poor grindability, means that it has never been a mainstream knife steel. Advantages: Toughness, wear resistance, corrosion resistance. Molybdenum additions improve “hardenability” so that slower air quenches can be used, so the 2% Mo helped in that regard. Crucible has been a part of the knife steel industry for many decades, such as with steels like 154CM which was developed in the late 1950’s and gained popularity in knives through Bob Loveless in the early 1970s. S30V is, in many eyes, the ultimate EDC steel. The corrosion resistance of S30V and the similar S35VN have been found to be better than CPM-154, in a range I would call “above average.” The corrosion resistance has been improved somewhat with the new S45VN, but S30V is good enough for many knives. $195.00 +$5.00 shipping. In choosing the best pocket knife you should pay particular attention to the type of steel used in the blade. Corrosion resistance is “above average” and has been sufficient for many knives that have been released over the almost 20 years S30V has been available. And of course, this varies along the edge from machined peak to valley. CPM = Cruidible Powder Metallurgy Powder steel is a technology that was invented to allow the … Improving all of those properties at the same time is difficult but I’m sure it helped that S30V is produced by powder metallurgy. A Knifemakers Perspective S45VNSelecting a steel to use in a knife is a balance between the intended use (features required), the cost of the steel (price point), and the difficulty both to cut, grind and heat treat the steel. S30V is a knife steel produced by Crucible, released at the end of 2001 [1]. The S35VN or CPM S35V is a high-end martensitic stainless steel made by @Crucible, high in Carbon, Vanadium, and chromium designed to offer a great balance between toughness, hardness and corrosion resistance.It’s used in long-wearing Specialty cutlery, Plastic Injection and Extrusion Feed Screws and Dies, … ... Spyderco Para 3 Sprint Run-Diamond Arc Text Forest Green G-10-CPM-S45VN. These properties make S45VN is outstanding blade steel for high-end folding knives. this article to learn about corrosion resistance, Toughness – improved because of a small reduction in carbide content along with using powder metallurgy for finer carbides, Edge retention – increased vanadium for hard vanadium carbides led to increased wear resistance and therefore slicing edge retention, Corrosion resistance – With the vanadium addition, less chromium carbide is formed in the S30V leading to improved corrosion resistance relative to BG42 and 154CM. If it costs the same as S30V/S35VN I could see a use for it, if its 10-20% more expensive, than we're in the price range of 20CV/M390. "A further modification was made with the S35VN, niobium increased carbides that contribute to the refinement of the grain size and increase wear resistance. Eventually though, CRK introduced S30V steel, which Chris was directly involved … This difference can be felt when whittling and cutting fibrous materials like cardboard and ropes despite the lack of change in heat treatment, the S45VN has a hardness rating of 61-62 compared to 59-60 of the S35VN. So to design a more balanced steel than S90V with improved toughness and grindability, a reduction in carbon and vanadium was necessary. The effected change led to the formation of a finer carbide structure, with improved toughness, and machinability. ""For edge toughness, I haven't been able to discern any difference but that is likely more due to my edge geometry and processes. Its composition has been altered to create more chromium carbides, while also allowing free chromium compounds in the composition. Custom knifemaker Jeff Freeman mentioned, that machining and cutting S45VN steel for blades, "For processing, I use the same tools (solid carbide) with the same coolant and fixturing. They interviewed people like Sal Glesser, Ernie Emersion, Tony Marfione, Phil Wilson, Bill Harsey, Mike Jones, Steve Ingrim, Tom Mayo, Jerry Hossom and Paul Bos [7]. $217.95. While corrosion resistance is important a knife's key role is cutting hence holding its edges is a vital feature. Toughness is better than CPM S30V, but slightly less than CPM … (Which is still considered an excellent blade material.) 38. The more the carbides present the tougher and brittle the steel. Made by @Crucible CPM 20CV is a martensitic stainless steel high in Vanadium, Chromium, and Carbon for excellent wear resistance and corrosion resistance, it’s used for plastic injection feed screws, barrel liners, screw tips, mold cavities, and premium Knives.. CPM-S30V. 4% S90V. Nitrogen was added in place of carbon and niobium increased in place of vanadium to improve corrosion resistance present in S35NV.Edge Retention The resulting edge retention is better than steels like Elmax, S35VN, CPM-154, and BG42, though a bit worse than S90V and M390. The resulting steel is expected to have similar hardness and corrosion resistance to S30V and S35VN. Add in the machined "grooves" on the bevels, and the edge thickness can be .050" prior to sharpening. As for edge finishing, I have been going with a 100 grit, then a 220 grit, then a 400 grit at 17 degrees per side, then a buffing wheel with green chrome to finish. The CPM process produces very homogeneous, high quality steel characterized by superior dimensional stability, grindability and toughness compared to steels produced by conventional processes." Time will tell for sure, as I have not made more than a couple of hundred blades, but things are trending that way. CPM-20CV. According to the specs, toughness is slightly decreased, CPM S45VN has 11lbs on C notch, vs. 12lbs on CPM S35VN steel, but better than 10lbs on earlier CPM S30V steel. 7. With a low Cr (5%) steel like 10V, basically all of the vanadium forms the very hard vanadium carbides (VC) which contribute to wear resistance and edge retention. The increase in Mo from 1% in S90V up to 2% in S30V provided an increase in corrosion resistance with the relatively low 14% Cr. Crucible started with 154CM as their basis, replacing 2% Mo with 2% vanadium. Top. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I have shown the 2050°F specimen below, along with comparisons with S30V, S35VN, and S45VN where you can see that SPY27 has somewhat less carbide than the others. Below shows the results of CATRA experiments reported by others that I have shown in other articles. So I think that 20CV would probably be the best choice for Spyderco to use if production costs were competitive with S30V or S45VN. S30V was designed to offer a “balanced” stainless steel which could offer good grindability, toughness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. Which makes it probably not the best "slicer" with .156" stock and a 5-degree bevel, but it sure makes a good and tough utility edge that maintains sharpness in use across a wide variety of cutting media.S45VN steel seems to provide a good canvas to for surface finishes. S35VN, which is the mainstream steel, contains lower components of niobium and lacks nitrogen, which is added to S45VN to increase toughness. And the exact same programming. If you’re also a steel nerd like myself, you know the advantages and disadvantages of S30V, which has long been an industry standard and still continues to be. The early versions of the steel were first tested by Chris Reeve Knives making that company very significant to what the final product became. 440C 2.5 ft. lbs. It gives a nice sharp bright and mirror-polished finish on the edge. Another fact known is that a reduced carbon and vanadium content would lead to a steel that was tougher and easier to grind because of a reduction in overall carbide content. Winkler Highland Hatchet - Curly Oak Tomahawk, Chris Reeve Large Sebenza 21 Tanto - Micarta Inlay Folding Knife, Kurt Merriken Custom 3" Phantom San Mai Damascus, Brian Tighe - Tighe Down Integral - RWL34 & Carbon Fiber Inlay, Hinderer Extreme Duty Pen Copper - EDP Tactical Pen, Tuff Writer Precision Press Flamed Titanium Tactical Pen, Download the Crudible CPM S45VN Steel Datasheet. In late 2019, Crucible industries in collaboration with Niagra Speciality Metals debuted CPM S45VN. So even as S30V is replaced to some extent, it is often by steels that owe some of their design to the older S30V. Your vote has been cast. Molybdenum improves corrosion resistance, as mentioned earlier in connection with 154CM. CPM S30V 10.0 ft. lbs. "Corrosion Resistance CPM s90v Corrosion Resistance: Great Corrosion Resistance due to … Yojimbo™ 2 Natural G-10 CPM® M4 Black Blade Exclusive. While various manufacturers have already put out the S45VN knife in the markets, it is bound to be more resistant to corrosion and wear as well have tough on edge retention. So what they did in the development of S90V was reduce the chromium content by 3% and add a corresponding amount of vanadium while maintaining a similar carbon content. Perhaps the toughness could be improved to 7-8 ft-lbs at 1-2 Rc higher hardness if using 2025-2050°F and 400°F: The corrosion resistance of S30V and the similar S35VN have been found to be better than CPM-154, in a range I would call “above average.” The corrosion resistance has been improved somewhat with the new S45VN, but S30V is good enough for many knives. The higher the chromium content, the less vanadium carbide is formed for a given vanadium content, and more and more chromium carbide is formed. The edge retention of S30V is still pretty good relative to other knife steels, better than steels like XHP, Elmax, 154CM, 440C, etc. Yojimbo™ 2 Natural G-10 CPM M4 Exclusive. Spyderco Jerry Brouwer CPM-S30V Green G-10 (Newest CQI Version) C232GTIP. Carbides are hard particles in steel that add to wear resistance but detract from toughness. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. 3. With increased carbon content and less vanadium, S45VN holds an edge longer as compared to its predecessors. I won’t say equivalent but close, CPM 154 is close to the S30V in the balance between hardness, corrosion resistance, wear resistance, and toughness, but still the S30V is better in edge retention and corrosion resistance, the second equivalent for our CPM154 would be the 154 CM(since it was developed based on it), and of course CPM … Summary and Conclusions. UK Penknife™ Red G-10 CPM S30V Exclusive. I’ve been a long time user of Chris Reeve Knives and even have my faithful first regular Sebenza in BG42 steel. I really would like to try out SPY-27, that looks like an interesting steel also. Yojimbo™ 2 Carbon Fiber CPM 20CV Exclusive. It was also somewhat finer than the previously available S60V and S90V. The new S45VN steel offers corrosion resistance like never before. S30V also has a nitrogen addition [3], a point not often recognized since the nitrogen is not listed in the … You can read more about how powder metallurgy works and its history in this article. From an experiment where the two steels were subjected to heat 1950 °F, the results after 24 and 48 hours respectively showed that S45VN was better to withstand corrosion resistance as compared to S35VN. According to the chemical composition and the HRC of the steel, the CPM s90v Steel has the following features: CPM s90v Edge Retention: With a high presence of vanadium and carbon, s90v steel offers extreme edge retention (might be the best in the steel). I run the pre-sharpened edge thickness a bit higher than most at around .040". CPM S35VN. I didn't really plan it that way, but it works out that this edge type, when combined with a relatively steep sharpening angle of 17 degrees per side gives a really tough sharpened edge. There are three significant things to know about S45VN steel: it has high vanadium content for very tough carbides (edge retention), it has high chromium for increased corrosion resistance, and niobium content for a cleaner grind/machinability.In late 2019, Crucible industries in collaboration with Niagra Speciality Metals debuted CPM S45VN. 154CM was designed for bearings, and was essentially a modification of 440C by reducing the chromium (Cr) by ~3% and adding 4% molybdenum (Mo). The addition of niobium is reflected with the addition of N in the name which is absent in the S30V. There weren’t obvious differences in the microstructure of SPY27 between 2000 and 2050°F, however. S60V was the first CPM steel produced by the company through the modification of common stainless grade 440C steel by increasing the composition of vanadium with a corresponding increase of carbon elements.Knifemaker Jeff Freeman of Freeman Outdoor Gear mentioned that, "I think CPM S45VN is a good improvement, both for the maker and the end-user. “Corrosion resistant, high vanadium, powder metallurgy tool steel articles with improved metal to metal wear resistance and a method for producing the same.” U.S. Patent 5,679,908, issued October 21, 1997. By Larry Connelley When looking at quality American-made knives, you'll notice that S35VN and S30V steel are two of the more popular steels for knife blades. As shown in the datasheet, S30V can reach at least 64 Rc when using cold treatments, and can easily be tempered down to the 58-61 Rc range common for many knives. See this article to learn about corrosion resistance. Required fields are marked *. Below is a table summarizing the resulting properties including the amount of chromium carbide (M7C3), vanadium carbide (MC), measured toughness (higher is better) wear resistance in a crossed-cylinder wear test (higher is better), and corrosion measured in a 10% boiling acetic acid solution (lower is better): So with all of those lessons learned, it was known that a lower chromium content would allow vanadium to go further in terms of its contribution to wear resistance. Chromium and vanadium both compete to form carbides. This is why 3% vanadium 3V has much better toughness and grindability than the 10% vanadium 10V, though at the cost of wear resistance. SUMMARY: CPM 345VN steel is a high alloy stainless steel with outstanding edge retention, increased corrosion resistance, and modest toughness. 5. S35VN, which was introduced in 2009 uses the modified formula of S30V, which is made with 1.45% carbon, 4% vanadium, and 10.5% chromium carbide with the addition of niobium to the vanadium and chromium carbide forming elements. S30V continues to be the benchmark other stainless knife steels are compared to. 5 out of 5 stars (1) 1 product ratings - Spyderco Jerry Brouwer CPM-S30V Green G-10 (Newest CQI Version) C232GTIP. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/11/19/steel-edge-retention/, But read a few of the edge retention articles… there is a huge context. S30V also needed to be easily heat treated with common knife heat treating equipment which was why Paul Bos was consulted. So we can understand more the Steel, let’s see its chemical … You can read more about carbide types and how elements interact to lead to different amounts in this article on carbides. [4] Chilton’s iron age 226, no. CPM S45VN is the updated version of CPM-S35VN. Crucible's goal was to create an even tougher steel that didn't sacrifice resistance to corrosion, and they did that by using niobium carbides in place of some of S30V's vanadium … I wrote about the history of 154CM in this article. Your email address will not be published. CPM S35VN Steel Review Chris Reeve Knives PacificWhen Crucible Industries introduced its CPM S30V steel, blade-smiths and knife-lovers alike fell in love with it; the quality wear resistance, toughness, and machinability offered by the steel was equal to none other. Chris Reeve is famous for developing two steels directly with Crucible Industries, and boy did this partnership result in an awesome product. Apart from the increase in Cr, S45VN also has a 0.15% nitrogen addition. Further fast-quench and cold treatment are recommended at 400°F temperatures depending on the desired levels of hardness. The molybdenum was added so that the bearings could be operated at high temperature, but it was discovered that partially replacing Cr with Mo led to similar corrosion resistance to 440C. The higher content means an increase in corrosion resistance. The Cr was reduced for a different reason, however. My question now is, why would I chose S45VN over M390? SPY27 – 2050°F. The S30V sample I tested was austenitized at 2000°F and tempered at 500°F. S30V gained wide usage in a relatively short period of time. A cryo treatment may be added between tempers. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). Alongside edge geometry and design, blade steel is a critical element that determines how a knife performs. S45VN is specifically designed to enhance their S30V and S35VN series for general high-end cutlery and cutting tools.CPM = Cruidible Powder MetallurgyPowder steel is a technology that was invented to allow the production of high alloy tool steels. Great article Larrin! I've seen it in processing and in the finished product. Be first to receive news about sales, coupons & new promotions. $269.95. S90V has a better edge retention but let's all be honest, edge retention for most of us is just numbers on a piece of paper. Another factor with ease in heat treating is how fast the steel must be quenched from high temperature and still achieve full hardness. I also get good corrosion resistance. People were calling it, “the best knife steel … The edge retention is … The carbide structure of S30V was finer than the common 154CM (BG42 is similar) because of powder metallurgy. S60V was released in the early 1980’s [4], perhaps the earliest PM stainless tool steel. Spartan Blades, along with other tactical knife manufacturers, have embraced the high performance CPM steels for their knives. S60V is not a bad steel and has relatively high edge retention, but its grindability and toughness are also relatively poor and its corrosion resistance is only mediocre. S60V, however, was essentially 440C but with 5.5% vanadium added and enough carbon to maintain similar hardness potential. It's a rare occurrence that we need that level of … What it is: CPM S35VN is a "Crucible Particle Metallurgy" stainless steel, an improvement over CPM S30V, and is widely regarded as a "super steel" for its properties and performance. With my own CATRA experiments the relative position of S30V is approximately the same, but I will be talking about those experiments in a future article. S45VN uses a similar chemical formula but with a rebalance of the percentage compositions of the elements.

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